Best Bits: 10 Hot Takes on Leadership, Storytelling & Human Connection

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Summary

Compilation episode stitching together short hot-take segments from 11 prior Curiosity Current guests on leadership, storytelling, research practice, customer connection, and AI.

Guest

Rand Fishkin — Co-Founder and CEO, SparkToro · Marketing / startup

From this episode — top claims

• The most dangerous aspect of AI products is that they almost never tell the user when they are bad at a task or suggest an alternative tool — unlike a professional who would redirect you to the right expert, AI produces confident-looking output regardless of whether it can actually do the thing asked. — Ep. 19 · 43:22, Rand Fishkin
• Viral stories of AI 'threatening' operators or expressing intentions are the product of statistical word prediction, not consciousness or agency; LLMs cannot have intentions because they are simply generating words that frequently follow other words — often drawn from science-fiction training data. — Ep. 19 · 41:44, Rand Fishkin
• There is no ethical way to use AI because the foundational models were built by taking content without permission or compensation from creators; while a legal 'fair use' argument was accepted under political pressure, it does not meet the moral or dictionary definition of fair use. — Ep. 19 · 36:45, Rand Fishkin

aytm's take on this conversation

Respondent goodwill is finite capital, and every bloated screener and mid-survey screen-out spends it down for every panel you share. Audit instruments for respondent cost the way you audit them for validity, and cut any question that does not earn its burden.

aytm's perspective, voiced by Stephanie.

Full transcript

0:01 Stephanie Welcome to the Curiosity Current, the podcast where we dive deep into what's shaping today's trends and tomorrow's consumers. I'm your host, Stephanie, and I'm so glad you're joining me. Each episode, we tap into the minds of researchers, innovators, and insights professionals to explore how curiosity drives discovery, and how discovery drives better decisions in an ever-changing market landscape. Whether you're a data enthusiast, a strategy pro, or, like me, just endlessly fascinated by human behavior, this is the place for you. So get ready to challenge your assumptions, spark some fresh thinking, and have some fun along the way. Let's see where curiosity takes us next with this brand-new episode.

0:56 Rand Moz, the first company I founded, the one with my mom, it sold a few years ago. 2021, '22, something like that. I wasn't on the board of directors anymore. I wasn't at the company anymore, but my wife and I still owned a huge percent of the company, like, 19% or something. And we got this giant check in the mail. Right? The company was not a successful exit by any means. The venture capitalists were not happy, but buying a $50 million company is still expensive.

1:16 Matt There was utility there.

1:18 Rand There was a number with a lot of zeros after it, and I was pretty freaked out that I'd turned into an asshole. I had, like, serious trauma about, "Oh, no. I'm gonna be a terrible person," to which I think the reflexive response would be, "Well, then just give it away." And we did give away a substantive portion of it—although certainly not all—and found a way to sort of be comfortable with, like, "Hey, it's okay, too. We just splurged on a bunch of fancy clothes for my little brother because I want him to look nicer." So it's not... yeah, we sent our nieces and cousins and some friends' kids to college. That feels awesome. That's very, very fulfilling. Their parents couldn't have paid for it. So it's like, there's cool stuff you can do, but also, you don't have to be a turd burger.

1:56 Stephanie You don't have to be a turd burger. It's true.

1:59 Rand Google is growing so big. SEO is getting huge. And so, yeah, Moz turned into a $50 million-a-year software as a service business with a couple hundred employees and a CEO who didn't really know what he was doing. Although, hot tip: I don't think CEOs know what they're doing. You know what they're really good at? Networking and seeming like they know what they're doing and I continue to fill that role today.

2:25 Matt Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's the lead-in. That's the lead-in line right there. CEOs don't know what they're doing.

2:31 Rand Look, man. We're all just pretending. This is why I'm so opposed to CEOs making, like, 500 times the pay of their employees. They're not working harder. They're not better than you. They're not smarter than you. They're not more talented than you. We're just doing a job like anyone else. We just happen to have leverage with the board of directors to be able to convince people that they have to pay us more.

2:52 Jeff My hot take is it kind of stems from, you know, everything kind of is cyclical. We always come back around to things that, you know, from the past. And so I want to be on record as saying, you know, I'll put myself out there. I think paper surveys are coming back. I think, you know...

3:11 Matt That's the hottest of hot takes I've heard in a while.

3:13 Stephanie Yeah, I love it. I love this hot take.

3:16 Jeff Well, here's... let me tell you why. Because we do have a little bit of research. We're looking at this a little bit further, but nobody answers their phone anymore. That's getting harder to do. Spam messages on both text, you know, and email... you know, I think of, like, my parents who are just scared to death to click anything that comes through email and who are, you know, even myself, like, putting my information out onto a website, you know, just being very careful about. So you look at this, so if we're not doing it electronically and people don't feel that that's no longer secure or... and I think we've all known somebody who's been scammed or been, you know, had their credit cards compromised or whatever it is, where are you gonna go? And I feel like physical, mmhmm, mail, physical paper surveys are... there's starting to be a turn of... there's a perception that those are safer and more reliable.

4:17 Ashley How do you make the return process simple? There's so many parallels, including foam in shoes and foam in mattresses. And so it was really fascinating to me when I started getting into the challenges that these two brands, ASICS and Residen, had, and just the parallels between the two.

4:36 Matt It's probably really helpful. I know a lot of times, too, for, like, for ideation, having a parallel sort of a metaphor to refer back to can be so helpful. Right?

4:45 Ashley Oh, yeah. Like now, when I'm doing some user experience research, I'm bringing in footwear sites being like, "Let's shop this site and see what this is like," because there's gotta be something. Right? Like a shoe guide versus a mattress guide. Those things are similar.

5:00 Stephanie Yes. I love that.

5:02 Matt I aspire to be an elite sleeper someday.

5:05 Stephanie Seriously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I wouldn't refer to myself as an elite runner, but I will say I've always, always, always been an ASICS diehard, and as a runner, so love that you have that background. I was very curious to get started with you today. So…

5:20 Ashley Hey. Well, I still make book contact before eye contact.

5:25 Leyla People remember stories, not statistics. It makes it kind of emotionally resonate with you. It makes it actionable. And especially now, I think decision-makers, especially high-level executives like CEOs, for example, it's just absolute information overload. Right? With lots of data that is not related to market research, like finance, operations, HR. And so storytelling, to me, is really what helps separate the signal from the noise. Right? And here I think of something that has played a really important role for me throughout my career, which is this idea of an elevator test. Right? So I always think if a stakeholder hears my presentation and then they go meet their colleague in the elevator, would they be able to explain the kind of core insight and action to someone in 20 seconds or less? Right? And if my story is strong enough and it's emotionally compelling, then, you know, the answer is always going to be yes.

6:20 Matt Really cool. I like the idea of kind of turning the elevator pitch on its head and adding that creative element. Like, how do you make it sticky? How do you make it sticky to the person who has to convey the value even though they themselves might not be the subject-matter expert? They just heard your story. I think that's a great idea. That's a great test. I'm gonna take note of that one. I'm gonna use that one.

6:40 Roddy Wanna know why you get some angry people into your studies, bounce around the router for a little bit. Spend some time. Spend 20 minutes trying to qualify for a study. Think that you get into one, and then five minutes later, you get screened out. So we really need everyone to jump on board and not do that because you want someone by the time they actually get into your study to not be bitter about it and want to finish and sort of fight their way through. We want to make that as positive of an experience as possible because when they can't get into the study and when they get there, it sucks. What are the chances they want to take a survey again? And we do not have infinite human capital to support what we're doing. And it's... it's... it's an easy thing to say, but not everyone is thinking about that, you know, whether they're sitting on the, you know, panel or supply side or, like, agency or design side, but we all should be.

7:24 Matt 100%. It is a precious touchpoint. And, like, if you're on the supplier side, not only that, it's an extension of your brand. Like, I mean, there's... it's just completely critical.

7:37 Raina As a manager, be genuine. If you're going to offer that, your people likely won't take you up on it, but if they do, you'll find a way to make it happen. Support them. They support you. You make a better work product together. So I will, you know, if somebody's rushing out the door for an emergency, I will ask, you know, "What can I do to keep this moving? What do you need from me?" And together as a team, you do come together and make that happen. But, but, yes, the ultimate end product: you get loyalty, you get connection, you have demonstrated empathy with your people, and they will show up for you in just the same way. Stephanie -00:08:17: Absolutely, they will. I think that point right there is such a good one. And it's something that strikes me in all of that is that there's a foundation of trust there that allows all of that to happen, and I really, I love that. I mean, that's such an important part of cultivating a strong team. To broaden that out a little bit, I find that the insights world—and again, that's the world that we live in, and I don't mean to imply that there aren't many other work worlds that are the same—but it can require long hours and a high level of emotional intelligence because it's this highly cross-functional function.

8:52 Louisea We will always have those stakeholders that love to lean on either conjoints or they only want to lean on focus groups. And it is our jobs, it's like the advocates for the customers, to allow them to see the beauty in both and what it can bring you. And so I also, I feel like as customer researchers, we're not just the data keepers. We are the voice of the customers. We are the people that brings their stories to life, their pain points to life. And you can only do that if you truly understand your data, whether it's quantitative or qualitative, and building that trust so they can know, like, "Hey, if they are the voice of the customer, then what I should tell them is, like, this is what we want to learn. These are my objectives," and then trust them to go and do it. But you have to build their trust and bring that open communication to the table and constantly fight for your customer even when it feels like it's an uphill battle.

9:50 Stephanie Absolutely. You know, that is a common theme that I feel like we hear, and that is a good takeaway for me because I think a lot of our guests tell us that. Right? That it's not just your job to be the gatekeeper. Right? Your job is to have a point of view and to really share it and advocate for that customer point of view.

10:08 Subhasish If we can extend the device for the customer, we get them for three years, and then customers pay much less for it. Right? And we can build on... probably, we'll get to it, like, how phone line itself has become kind of commoditized. So you look for services on top of it. So the longer duration you are with the customer, you understand them a bit better, and you can tell them what this customer is truly looking for. Phone... meaning to their need, and their need could be much more than just talking on a telephone line.

10:39 Stephanie Yeah. Absolutely. It's so interesting to hear you talk through that. I worked in telecom. I actually worked for a mobile manufacturer. It's been about 10 years. And at that time, you're... you're... it's so different than what you're talking about now. You're right that, like, every year, just the iterations that were happening were large and big and would take your phone so much further. And so even waiting those two years could be kind of brutal, but it doesn't feel like that anymore at all. So it totally makes sense.

11:09 Dave I think you have to have the right inputs and resources. I think, certainly, human beings could uncover the same ground, if not more predictive, with insights, but all of that is a dependency. Right? However, AI is gonna expedite things, enable thoughtful iteration, and sometimes it may be met with apprehension. And I'll give you an example. I'll go back to 2002, 2008, the mortgage crisis, Michael Burry. He was looking for data points that no one else was looking at, and he was surfacing those things. And, you know, I think things like that, you're gonna have to have human intervention to validate, advocate, and influence. AI is not gonna do that. It's only as good as the person who's ingesting the information, and it can be easily dismissed. So I didn't really answer your question. I kinda just danced around, but did you like that?

11:56 Matt No, that's great .I think that's great perspective. I mean, it's so hard to tell where things are going to be, to your point, even six months from now. It's just important to... to always, always keep that human in the loop. It makes a lot of sense.

12:12 Ben This idea of rivalry, while important to the regalia of the fan experience, is actually not as widespread as we think it is. So that's just kind of one thing. And then there's this other idea that comes up in these conversations about sports fandom where we get to this notion of hate. But what about two rival teams who hate each other? Is that creating connection? Isn't that creating more disconnection and dislocation in society? And to that, I would say absolutely not. Because when we use the word "hate" in this context, it fundamentally means something different than when we use it in other contexts. So it's sports love, it's sports hate, it's all these things. So, no. The reality is, if you are an Ohio State Buckeye fan, talking to Michigan Wolverine fans is more fun than talking to USC Trojan fans. That's the reality of it. All these things kind of just get mixed up, and then, like, it becomes the conventional wisdom, but it's actually not true of the fan experience. If you sort of stop down and just kind of follow the idea to its logical conclusion—which is effectively what we try and do here—then you start to realize, "Oh, that's actually not the critical thing. 'Hate' is actually not the right way to think about this." And so you start to pull away what doesn't matter and what's not true to get to what actually is true about the fan experience.

13:24 Stephanie The Curiosity Current is brought to you by AYTM. To find out how AYTM helps brands connect with consumers and bring insights to life, visit aytm.com. And to make sure you never miss an episode, subscribe to the Curiosity Current in Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us, and we'll see you next time.

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